I sit here after hearing about the shooting at Virginia Tech yesterday, and still can not believe that once again our schools were target of such an incredible, horrific massacre. It saddens me to hear this news, to hear of the number of students and staff that were shot and wounded or killed! And to know that the survivors have a very difficult road ahead of them...
Why? My 13 and 11 year old sons asked me again this morning, why would someone go into a school and just start shooting? How can anyone do that? I have no answers for them, I can only try to help them understand that sometimes things people do don't make sense, that some people have no morals or codes of conduct, and that unfortunately bad things happen...but is that it? How do we explain to our children, to ourselves? And when will it stop?
I will definately be thinking of all those people, family and friends that are suffering through this. My prayers go out to each and every one of them! May God Bless them and be with them in this incredible time of sorrow.
Shooting at Virginia Tech / Statement by President Charles W. Steger
By Larry Hincker
BLACKSBURG, Va., April 16, 2007
Tuesday, there will be a university convocation/ceremony at 2 p.m. at Cassell Coliseum.
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The university was struck today with a tragedy of monumental proportions. There were two shootings on campus. In each case, there were fatalities. The university is shocked and horrified that this would befall our campus. I want to extend my deepest, sincerest and most profound sympathies to the families of these victims which include students There are 22 confirmed deaths.
We currently are in the process of notifying families of victims. The Virginia Tech Police are being assisted by numerous other jurisdictions. Crime scenes are being investigated by the FBI, University Police, and State Police. We continue to work to identify the victims impacted by this tragedy. I cannot begin to covey my own personal sense of loss over this senselessness of such an incomprehensible and heinous act The university will immediately set up counseling centers. So far centers have been identified in Ambler Johnston and the Cook Counseling Center to work with our campus community and families.
Here are some of the facts we know:
At about 7:15 a.m. this morning a 911 call came to the University Police Department concerning an event in West Ambler Johnston Hall. There were multiple shooting victims. While in the process of investigating, about two hours later the university received reports of a shooting in Norris Hall. The police immediately responded. Victims have been transported to various hospitals in the immediate area in the region to receive emergency treatment.
We will proceed to contact the families of victims as identities are available.
All classes are cancelled and the university is closed for the remainder of today. The university will open Tuesday at 8 a.m. but classes are cancelled. The police are currently staging the release of people from campus buildings.
Families wishing to reunite with the students are suggested to meet at the Inn at Virginia Tech. We are making plans for a convocation tomorrow (Tuesday) at noon at Cassell Coliseum for the university community to come together to begin to deal with the tragedy.
Podcast:: Statement by President Steger (3.1 MB; Length 3:21)
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Counseling is available in the Bowman Room on the fourth floor of Jamerson Athletic Center, accessible from Jamerson or the Merryman Athletic Facility, for employees who seek assistance following today's events.
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Virginia Tech has closed today Monday, April 16, 2007. On Tuesday, April 17, classes are canceled. The university will remain open for administrative operations.
Tuesday, there will be a university convocation/ceremony at 2 p.m. at Cassell Coliseum. The Inn at Virginia Tech has been designated as the site for parents to gather and obtain information.
Full Version: Shooting at Virginia Tech
Tammy, I went to school here my first year in college, and West A-J was my dorm. 
My younger brother also went to school here, as did my cousin. The past couple of days all I can do is keep reading about this, and wonder what happened, how it happened. What a senseless tragedy.
My younger brother also went to school here, as did my cousin. The past couple of days all I can do is keep reading about this, and wonder what happened, how it happened. What a senseless tragedy.
Very well said Tammy. I too will be thinking about and praying for everyone involved, especially the victims and their families, as well as the rest of the students and faculty at Virginia Tech who must now find a way to move forward following such a horrendous tragedy. I also will be thinking of the alumni of the school. I can only imagine what you are feeling right now, Sandi. My thoughts and prayers go out to you and everyone else who is suffering from this senseless tragedy. Indeed, when will this senseless violence end?
Sandi, I had no idea you had gone there! You must be feeling so much right now, having such a personal connection to the school and people there-I can't imagine how much worse(if that's possible) I'd feel if it were my school. I agree it is definately a senseless Tragedy!
This is just unbelievable. It's the saddest thing. As much as we try to make sense of this and put blame on someone, their is no rhyme or reason to it and we will never understand what happened to make a human cause this much pain. I pray for the families and friends of those lost and those who are hurt. Everyone has a very long, painful journey ahead of them and my thoughts are with each and every one of them.
This is such a sad, horrific and absolutely terrible situation, my thoughts, heart and prayers go out to all of those affected...I hope the dead rest in peace and the survivors somehow find it. God Bless all of them.
-Sarah Liz
-Sarah Liz
Obviously this is a tragedy of staggering proportions--actually the single worst case of mass murder that has happened in one locale in America since 9/11.
Like all mass shootings of this kind, dating all the way back to Charles Whitman's 1966 killing spree at the University of Texas (where 21 people were killed), there is no real rhyme or reason to it that will satisfy anyone completely, only a whole host of theories to be talked about, and a whole lot of blame to be passed around, among the faculty, the cops, and, to a certain extent, even the students of Virginia Tech.
What bugs me the most about this whole horrible and ghastly event, as it did with Columbine, is that this young Korean student was showing outward signs of psychological problems and violence, and yet it seems as if nobody paid attention to those warning signs. He posed a danger to everyone around him with such disturbing behavior, most especially himself, and yet nothing was done. After Columbine and 9/11, didn't it behoove people at any educational institution, be it a high school or a university, to be on the alert for the possibility of such horror occurring?
We need to really pay attention to the issues of psychologically troubled students on campuses from now on, because it seems to me that this young man's cries for help went totally unheard. To me, this is completely inexcusable. We may also want to consider our own attitudes towards the outside world, because inevitably our nation is going to be criticized, as it has been in the past, for trying to impose its attitudes on the rest of the world while not taking care of business in its own backyard. We need to take a look in the mirror, and think very carefully of how we want to be seen by the eyes of the world. Only through these steps, I believe, can we ever get back to greatness.
Like all mass shootings of this kind, dating all the way back to Charles Whitman's 1966 killing spree at the University of Texas (where 21 people were killed), there is no real rhyme or reason to it that will satisfy anyone completely, only a whole host of theories to be talked about, and a whole lot of blame to be passed around, among the faculty, the cops, and, to a certain extent, even the students of Virginia Tech.
What bugs me the most about this whole horrible and ghastly event, as it did with Columbine, is that this young Korean student was showing outward signs of psychological problems and violence, and yet it seems as if nobody paid attention to those warning signs. He posed a danger to everyone around him with such disturbing behavior, most especially himself, and yet nothing was done. After Columbine and 9/11, didn't it behoove people at any educational institution, be it a high school or a university, to be on the alert for the possibility of such horror occurring?
We need to really pay attention to the issues of psychologically troubled students on campuses from now on, because it seems to me that this young man's cries for help went totally unheard. To me, this is completely inexcusable. We may also want to consider our own attitudes towards the outside world, because inevitably our nation is going to be criticized, as it has been in the past, for trying to impose its attitudes on the rest of the world while not taking care of business in its own backyard. We need to take a look in the mirror, and think very carefully of how we want to be seen by the eyes of the world. Only through these steps, I believe, can we ever get back to greatness.
QUOTE(Erik @ Apr 18 2007, 12:08 AM) 
What bugs me the most about this whole horrible and ghastly event, as it did with Columbine, is that this young Korean student was showing outward signs of psychological problems and violence, and yet it seems as if nobody paid attention to those warning signs. He posed a danger to everyone around him with such disturbing behavior, most especially himself, and yet nothing was done. After Columbine and 9/11, didn't it behoove people at any educational institution, be it a high school or a university, to be on the alert for the possibility of such horror occurring?
As The Washington Post states, there was a teacher that noticed and reported it. However, she was told that nothing could be done as no direct threats were made.
Roy said she warned school officials. "I was determined that people were going to take notice," Roy said. "I felt I'd said to so many people, 'Please, will you look at this young man?' "
Roy, now the alumni distinguished professor of English and co-director of the creative writing program, said university officials were responsive and sympathetic to her warnings but indicated that because Cho had made no direct threats, there was little they could do.
"I don't want to be accusatory or blaming other people," Roy said. "I do just want to say, though, it's such a shame if people don't listen very carefully and if the law constricts them so that they can't do what is best for the student."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...ml?hpid=topnews
It is really really scary and so tragic. As everyone else is, I am still stunned and in total and utter shock. My prayers go out to all the families and people involved. After I heard about it, I immediately wanted to call my mom and just to say hi and that I love her....My Prayers go out!
Friday is "Hokie Hope," an alumni-led declaration of a national "Orange and Maroon Effect" day, if you'd like to show your support.
Quote by sandis, from Washington Post article:
I am afraid that it's a terrible bind that law enforcement is in. I think she did everything she possibly could under the circumstances. Did the university officials did all they could? No one can say with any certainity.
The problem is, however, you can't simply arrest someone for what might be going on in that person's mind. That falls under the Fourth Amendment, protecting people from unreasonable search and seizure. And the simple truth is that while there are laws that are designed to punish criminals, there is not one single law in any state that actually prevents crime, because no law in the world can ever change human nature. And part of the price we pay of living in a free society in America is the predilection of a very small minority to commit atrocities like what we saw at Virginia Tech--or at Columbine, or what we experienced on 9/11.
QUOTE
Roy said she warned school officials. "I was determined that people were going to take notice," Roy said. "I felt I'd said to so many people, 'Please, will you look at this young man?' "
Roy, now the alumni distinguished professor of English and co-director of the creative writing program, said university officials were responsive and sympathetic to her warnings but indicated that because Cho had made no direct threats, there was little they could do.
"I don't want to be accusatory or blaming other people," Roy said. "I do just want to say, though, it's such a shame if people don't listen very carefully and if the law constricts them so that they can't do what is best for the student."
Roy, now the alumni distinguished professor of English and co-director of the creative writing program, said university officials were responsive and sympathetic to her warnings but indicated that because Cho had made no direct threats, there was little they could do.
"I don't want to be accusatory or blaming other people," Roy said. "I do just want to say, though, it's such a shame if people don't listen very carefully and if the law constricts them so that they can't do what is best for the student."
I am afraid that it's a terrible bind that law enforcement is in. I think she did everything she possibly could under the circumstances. Did the university officials did all they could? No one can say with any certainity.
The problem is, however, you can't simply arrest someone for what might be going on in that person's mind. That falls under the Fourth Amendment, protecting people from unreasonable search and seizure. And the simple truth is that while there are laws that are designed to punish criminals, there is not one single law in any state that actually prevents crime, because no law in the world can ever change human nature. And part of the price we pay of living in a free society in America is the predilection of a very small minority to commit atrocities like what we saw at Virginia Tech--or at Columbine, or what we experienced on 9/11.
I have been praying since the moment I heard about this. It is such a huge tragedy - and my heart breaks for all the families and friends - as well as the whole community.
You are right Sandi, about the "rights" of those who are mentally ill. If someone shows signs of depression, suicide, rage, etc - there are so many laws that bind our hands. I have sat in emergency rooms with people who told me they wanted to kill themselves, and have been told that there was nothing the doctors could do! The person was free to go - if they didn't ask for help in a certain way. It is the same with this person. If he didn't make an actual threat that could be used to arrest him - there was very little they could do. His writings and behavior was psychotic, and like that mother who killed her children - he wasn't stopped!
I guess I wish there were ways to see in to the future and then stop someone from making a choice to do something so horrific - but all through history we have seen terrible things done to innocent people. The "whys" are not easy. But when we talk to our children, we have to teach them that each of us have choices, and we hope that with God's help we will make the choices for good. We also hope that if we see someone who is so disturbed and sick - there will be help for them and for everyone. We have to believe that we can make a difference in our world! We have to teach our children about how important each life is and that God is with us in everything. If we don't - the value of "life" is lost - and more and more we will see things like this happening. Our society has taken God out of so many things - our schools and courts - pretty much our public society. I really believe this has hurt our country and our world. Our kids are not always taught the value of life or of Godly rules.
Tammy, we all need to teach our children about faith and God - and choosing good things in our lives. And in doing so, they also need to know that some people choose to do awful things in this world. I know that you have given your sons a good foundation - one full of faith and trust. They will grow into wonderful young men who will make this world better. That is all you can do - help them to understand the difference between "good" and "bad". And hope and pray that their lives will be safe - in a world that is full of turmoil. But you have given them the tools to get through whatever lays ahead for them.
I hope I haven't rambled on too much. But my heart really hurts when I think about all this. There aren't any easy answers to any of this.
You are right Sandi, about the "rights" of those who are mentally ill. If someone shows signs of depression, suicide, rage, etc - there are so many laws that bind our hands. I have sat in emergency rooms with people who told me they wanted to kill themselves, and have been told that there was nothing the doctors could do! The person was free to go - if they didn't ask for help in a certain way. It is the same with this person. If he didn't make an actual threat that could be used to arrest him - there was very little they could do. His writings and behavior was psychotic, and like that mother who killed her children - he wasn't stopped!
I guess I wish there were ways to see in to the future and then stop someone from making a choice to do something so horrific - but all through history we have seen terrible things done to innocent people. The "whys" are not easy. But when we talk to our children, we have to teach them that each of us have choices, and we hope that with God's help we will make the choices for good. We also hope that if we see someone who is so disturbed and sick - there will be help for them and for everyone. We have to believe that we can make a difference in our world! We have to teach our children about how important each life is and that God is with us in everything. If we don't - the value of "life" is lost - and more and more we will see things like this happening. Our society has taken God out of so many things - our schools and courts - pretty much our public society. I really believe this has hurt our country and our world. Our kids are not always taught the value of life or of Godly rules.
Tammy, we all need to teach our children about faith and God - and choosing good things in our lives. And in doing so, they also need to know that some people choose to do awful things in this world. I know that you have given your sons a good foundation - one full of faith and trust. They will grow into wonderful young men who will make this world better. That is all you can do - help them to understand the difference between "good" and "bad". And hope and pray that their lives will be safe - in a world that is full of turmoil. But you have given them the tools to get through whatever lays ahead for them.
I hope I haven't rambled on too much. But my heart really hurts when I think about all this. There aren't any easy answers to any of this.
I was very shocked and sadden to hear about this as well....I was dumbfounded after I got done doing a few things online then saw the news scroll across my screen.
Now I am being flooded with e-mails from School, Letters as well, and even a few from potential Colleges that my Daughter has already contacted for in the near future.
Now before you ctiticize my next....just remember where I have been and the Jobs I have done...4 years in Army, 12 years Fire/Ems, .....I worked Dispatch for Ambulance Service during 9/11.....
All these tragedies at the Schools, there is truly no answer ryhme or reason to IT. And no matter what we do, Gun control, NO Gun control...I serious believe it won't end. Its like with DRUGS....You want them, you will find them....After allwe have been thru...seems to me IMHO, of course, this is just HOME GROWN TERRORISM...And I am sick and tired of it and REFUSE to be scared anymore. SO my message to any future TERRORIST out there....UP-YOURS...I am not SCARED. You don't scare me one bit, but you sure have ticked me off.
I think we as Parents have limited choices. Best is to teach our CHILDREN to be MORE ALERT...See something funny or suspicious, don't let the Authorities brush you off, be diligent, tactful, and keep hounding them untill they listen and Investigate. And by all means, learn how to protect your self, and aware of surrounding for protection as well. My kids want me to tech them how to duck and roll now if someone is shooting a weapon. I NEVER EVER thought they would ask me this QUESTION for REAL and not just for fun playing games. That really has me agrivated at these JERKS...
Sorry...just how I feel right now on the subject. Sad part is, GOD may forgive, but its a lot harder for me to be so forgiving for this sensless tragedies, but he does try to help me and knows I am stubborn also.
Melanie
Now I am being flooded with e-mails from School, Letters as well, and even a few from potential Colleges that my Daughter has already contacted for in the near future.
Now before you ctiticize my next....just remember where I have been and the Jobs I have done...4 years in Army, 12 years Fire/Ems, .....I worked Dispatch for Ambulance Service during 9/11.....
All these tragedies at the Schools, there is truly no answer ryhme or reason to IT. And no matter what we do, Gun control, NO Gun control...I serious believe it won't end. Its like with DRUGS....You want them, you will find them....After allwe have been thru...seems to me IMHO, of course, this is just HOME GROWN TERRORISM...And I am sick and tired of it and REFUSE to be scared anymore. SO my message to any future TERRORIST out there....UP-YOURS...I am not SCARED. You don't scare me one bit, but you sure have ticked me off.
I think we as Parents have limited choices. Best is to teach our CHILDREN to be MORE ALERT...See something funny or suspicious, don't let the Authorities brush you off, be diligent, tactful, and keep hounding them untill they listen and Investigate. And by all means, learn how to protect your self, and aware of surrounding for protection as well. My kids want me to tech them how to duck and roll now if someone is shooting a weapon. I NEVER EVER thought they would ask me this QUESTION for REAL and not just for fun playing games. That really has me agrivated at these JERKS...
Sorry...just how I feel right now on the subject. Sad part is, GOD may forgive, but its a lot harder for me to be so forgiving for this sensless tragedies, but he does try to help me and knows I am stubborn also.
Melanie
Sandi, I had meant to say how sorry I was - for you and what you must be feeling right now. So for you and those who died and the families and friends who have gone through so much - I will try to find clothes that will honor you and them. I don't have much in the way of orange and maroon, but I think I can find something.
Sandi...will TEXAS orange work for you...
...I got maroon also...Best I can do for orange....But now Tech and UT have a tragedy in common......Sorry to have that to share ...rather it be National Championships!!!!
Debbie has eased my anger a bit....And I am happy the gunman has met his maker and JUDGE...
And I hope he has to suffer and hear his victims cries for eternity....Va. Tech has some special ANGELS to watch over them now...
Melanie
...I got maroon also...Best I can do for orange....But now Tech and UT have a tragedy in common......Sorry to have that to share ...rather it be National Championships!!!!Debbie has eased my anger a bit....And I am happy the gunman has met his maker and JUDGE...
And I hope he has to suffer and hear his victims cries for eternity....Va. Tech has some special ANGELS to watch over them now...
Melanie
This tragedy is as shocking to us as the West Side shootings (near Jonesboro, AR) were...and just as senseless.
This guy had mental problems; the question that is probably on a lot of people's minds is how he could be released from psychiatric care when he had already represented such a clear and present danger to others. I understand that some people have mental problems where they don't think clearly, where--for whatever reason--wrong becomes right. But it's still difficult to grasp how they could believe that shooting a lot of people would be something to do. Going postal never really solves anything, even for the shooter; after all, typically shooters are shot dead by police or--perhaps realizing what they have done and/or not wishing to spend time in prison--they take their own lives.
In the past, there was a great stigma about getting professional help; sometimes someone who maybe even only needed a little help would go without it because they were afraid they wouldn't be able to get or keep a job. (Not to mention that no one wanted it publicly known that there was a crazy person in the family, etc.) The stigma isn't as bad as it was (though certain high stress jobs might still have a way of justifying not hiring such a person); but we should be encouraging people to get help, even at younger ages, if/when necessary. In this case, the professional help didn't do him any good, but others might be helped before they get to the point of going postal.
This guy had mental problems; the question that is probably on a lot of people's minds is how he could be released from psychiatric care when he had already represented such a clear and present danger to others. I understand that some people have mental problems where they don't think clearly, where--for whatever reason--wrong becomes right. But it's still difficult to grasp how they could believe that shooting a lot of people would be something to do. Going postal never really solves anything, even for the shooter; after all, typically shooters are shot dead by police or--perhaps realizing what they have done and/or not wishing to spend time in prison--they take their own lives.
In the past, there was a great stigma about getting professional help; sometimes someone who maybe even only needed a little help would go without it because they were afraid they wouldn't be able to get or keep a job. (Not to mention that no one wanted it publicly known that there was a crazy person in the family, etc.) The stigma isn't as bad as it was (though certain high stress jobs might still have a way of justifying not hiring such a person); but we should be encouraging people to get help, even at younger ages, if/when necessary. In this case, the professional help didn't do him any good, but others might be helped before they get to the point of going postal.
Quote by Zeppelinmonger:
Of course, "going postal" never solves anything. But when someone has reached the point where the psychic pain of being teased and ostracized by fellow students and others becomes psychotic rage, what is that person going to do?
I don't know how many of us here were ever thought of as, or considered ourselves, "loners" when we were either in high school or in college, but I know I was--and believe me, it wasn't pleasant. Sure, I didn't go as far as to shoot up my school, but I was ostracized because I didn't cave in to peer pressure. I don't excuse what this one disturbed man did at Virginia Tech, or what Eric Harris and Dylan Kleibold did at Columbine High. But I understand where the rage comes from: the unfortunate cruelty that I'm afraid is part of this macho, manly ethic that we have in this country--that if you don't do what others do to "fit in", you're weak. And to be honest with everyone here, that is one aspect of my country that sickens me no end.
If we don't start caring for the so-called "little guys", and the ones who have problems like this one young man had which went by the wayside, we shouldn't be surprised if we get another massacre like this somewhere else in America.
QUOTE
Going postal never really solves anything, even for the shooter; after all, typically shooters are shot dead by police or--perhaps realizing what they have done and/or not wishing to spend time in prison--they take their own lives.
Of course, "going postal" never solves anything. But when someone has reached the point where the psychic pain of being teased and ostracized by fellow students and others becomes psychotic rage, what is that person going to do?
I don't know how many of us here were ever thought of as, or considered ourselves, "loners" when we were either in high school or in college, but I know I was--and believe me, it wasn't pleasant. Sure, I didn't go as far as to shoot up my school, but I was ostracized because I didn't cave in to peer pressure. I don't excuse what this one disturbed man did at Virginia Tech, or what Eric Harris and Dylan Kleibold did at Columbine High. But I understand where the rage comes from: the unfortunate cruelty that I'm afraid is part of this macho, manly ethic that we have in this country--that if you don't do what others do to "fit in", you're weak. And to be honest with everyone here, that is one aspect of my country that sickens me no end.
If we don't start caring for the so-called "little guys", and the ones who have problems like this one young man had which went by the wayside, we shouldn't be surprised if we get another massacre like this somewhere else in America.
All of you have made very good points here, and I commend them all! I've been reading the added posts to this thread and I agree most with what Debbie, Erik, Tammy and Melanie Sr. said--you guys are absolutely right! I was a loner too, but knowing the difference between right and wrong made all the difference for me and it still never occured to me to harm anyone else. I think there are some seriously messed up people out there and all the rules/laws/clinics out there can never help them, evil does exist, it's sad, but true.
The reason I haven't commented further on this is because I have no idea what to say. That's a rarity I know.
But, to be honest, when Columbine happened eight years ago tomorrow, it sent me into a serious depression for weeks. Same thing with the OK City Bombing, 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina, I was depressed for weeks. When Columbine happened, I was in High School, now, I'm of college age, so I know that this VA Tech tragedy could also send me into a depression as well; therefore, I've tried to seperate myself from it as best as possible.
That's not to sound un-compassionate, because believe me, if I REALLY sat and thought about it, and watched every news report about what really happened, I would probably cry for hours or days on end. I feel things very deeply, and while I am incredibly saddened for the victims and their families, I also cannot allow this tragedy to get the best of me. Yes, it is horrible, it is tragic, its reasons are unknown and make no sense; I whole heartedly agree with all of that. I will continue to pray for the victims and their families and hold them in my thoughts as well. But, I know from past experiences (Columbine, 9/11, Oklahoma City, Hurricane Katrina) that if I get too into what happened at VA Tech, I will be seriously depressed, and I'm just not not willing to let that happen.
I hope I've not offended anyone by saying this, and please don't think I'm heartless, I'm not. What happened is beyond comprehension, and each and every person affected by it has a long road of recovery ahead of them. I do have one question? Why does this stuff seem to happen in April? VA Tech, Columbine, OK City Bombing (12 years ago today), Wacco? Honestly, anyone ever noticed that? Just an observation. Once again, God Bless all of those in and around VA Tech.
Many Blessings,
-Sarah Liz
The reason I haven't commented further on this is because I have no idea what to say. That's a rarity I know.
But, to be honest, when Columbine happened eight years ago tomorrow, it sent me into a serious depression for weeks. Same thing with the OK City Bombing, 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina, I was depressed for weeks. When Columbine happened, I was in High School, now, I'm of college age, so I know that this VA Tech tragedy could also send me into a depression as well; therefore, I've tried to seperate myself from it as best as possible.
That's not to sound un-compassionate, because believe me, if I REALLY sat and thought about it, and watched every news report about what really happened, I would probably cry for hours or days on end. I feel things very deeply, and while I am incredibly saddened for the victims and their families, I also cannot allow this tragedy to get the best of me. Yes, it is horrible, it is tragic, its reasons are unknown and make no sense; I whole heartedly agree with all of that. I will continue to pray for the victims and their families and hold them in my thoughts as well. But, I know from past experiences (Columbine, 9/11, Oklahoma City, Hurricane Katrina) that if I get too into what happened at VA Tech, I will be seriously depressed, and I'm just not not willing to let that happen.
I hope I've not offended anyone by saying this, and please don't think I'm heartless, I'm not. What happened is beyond comprehension, and each and every person affected by it has a long road of recovery ahead of them. I do have one question? Why does this stuff seem to happen in April? VA Tech, Columbine, OK City Bombing (12 years ago today), Wacco? Honestly, anyone ever noticed that? Just an observation. Once again, God Bless all of those in and around VA Tech.
Many Blessings,
-Sarah Liz
QUOTE(Erik @ Apr 19 2007, 09:13 PM)
Of course, "going postal" never solves anything. But when someone has reached the point where the psychic pain of being teased and ostracized by fellow students and others becomes psychotic rage, what is that person going to do?
Seek help before it gets to that point. And yes, I do understand that the stress/pressures of being a student, pulling all-nighters and whatnot, etc. and then having to listen to insults from people who are--at least in name only--your peers is a little much to have to endure.
QUOTE(Erik @ Apr 19 2007, 09:13 PM)
But I understand where the rage comes from: the unfortunate cruelty that I'm afraid is part of this macho, manly ethic that we have in this country--that if you don't do what others do to "fit in", you're weak. And to be honest with everyone here, that is one aspect of my country that sickens me no end.
I wasn't a total loner, but I did switch high schools a couple of times, so I did have difficulty with social connections at times. The result of which was that I learned to deal by not being so dependant on others or on others' opinions. And I only did what I really wanted to do. By the time that I went to college, the opinions of others meant practically nothing at all. To me, that is a part of growing up, to let go of all that. Knowing/Realizing that the power to be happy is within you, not in the eyes of others.
QUOTE(Erik @ Apr 19 2007, 09:13 PM)
If we don't start caring for the so-called "little guys", and the ones who have problems like this one young man had which went by the wayside, we shouldn't be surprised if we get another massacre like this somewhere else in America.
What would be better is if more people had the courage to isolate/ostracize the people who do the bullying, insulting, etc.
QUOTE(sarahliz97 @ Apr 19 2007, 10:40 PM)
All of you have made very good points here, and I commend them all! I've been reading the added posts to this thread and I agree most with what Debbie, Erik, Tammy and Melanie Sr. said--you guys are absolutely right! I was a loner too, but knowing the difference between right and wrong made all the difference for me and it still never occured to me to harm anyone else. I think there are some seriously messed up people out there and all the rules/laws/clinics out there can never help them, evil does exist, it's sad, but true.
-Sarah Liz
-Sarah Liz
No, society is not going to catch everyone who has those tendancies, the ones who one might call truly evil as opposed to insane. And those people are smart enough that they can pass practically any psychiatric examination, because they are sane and do know what the "right" answers are (they just choose to do otherwise when they actually act out). So, as I was saying, there is no way to catch them all. Even if you could "catch" them, knowing that they have an evil mind, what can you really do before they commit a crime? Anyone can have the odd evil thought, but no one is guilty until they actually do it. However--in this case--when you have several people saying, "this guy needs help" and no one does anything, no one follows-up, who is at fault? The guy did the actual killings, of course, but I still feel some of the responsibility should be shared by those who knew there was a problem but let him go free despite the fact that he was continuing to threaten people. I'm sure there are some that would disagree with me (saying, for example, that he just gave the doctors the "right" answers), but that is my opinion of the situation.
I have read what everyone has written, and mostly agree. But I guess my worry is pointing blame, and allowing anger to be the primary feeling here. I want to quote the bible for one moment here - "anger is as to murder! When we hate, we are allowing murder into our hearts and our world. There will always be wickedness in this world, as we don't live in Heaven yet. But when more of us choose to care, to take the time to help another - the world really does become a better place. But there are no guarantees in this life. And I guess that's why I feel it is so important to make each day count. Tell those you love, that you love them. And do the things that make a difference - as much as you can.
I think most of us have felt "different" and alone at some point in our lives. Most of us have been hurt by another, felt loss and even abuse. The difference here is that most of us learned how to make it through those times. I admit that I spent a few years in counseling, learning how to undo the wounds of abuse in my life. It helped a lot. And with the friends I made through different church groups and bible studies, I was able to leave an abusive marriage - and even face being homeless. I knew what it felt like to be alone, abused, and even tormented. But I got help. This person did not! And if I read the information correctly, he was unable to discern between your voice and mine - and the the tormenting voices in his head. He needed more than just "help". He needed so much more, and didn't get it.
In our country, and our world - there will always be the battle between good and wicked. And sometimes wicked wins out. It isn't fair, or right. And the losses hurt terribly. But that's why we all need each other to get through this life we are living. There will be times of fear and hurt, and there will also be times of great joy. Those are the times to celebrate.
I talked to my daughter today. She takes care of little ones who have come from terrible abuse, neglect, and also suffer from all sorts of psychological disorders. Some of these children could become the young man who did this terrible thing. Jen has been bit, punched, and called so many terrible things by very little children. But it is people like her, who determine to help these children, who make a difference in their lives. Every once in a while there are moments of laughter, and pure joy - and those are the ones she calls and has to tell me about. A child has found a new home, or one that finally lets his walls down and lets the pain out - those moments are what stops what happened at VT and other places. It is a horrible job sometimes, and I wonder sometimes how she does it - but she loves making a difference in this world. The sad part is, there are not enough beds for the children who need that type of help.
Again, I didn't meant to go on and on. But I guess I started to think about what can make a difference in this world, and it is every single one of us. Look up the programs in your community for children like this young man was when he was little. See if they need donations or volunteers. Hug your own children, and make sure you make today count. Because this really isn't Heaven that we live in.
And Erik, don't give up on this country. We do have problems, but we also have much more than so many other places in this world. In other countries, there are just as many "tragedies" - but they are hidden by governments or the fact that they are so poor that no one hears about them. Famine, massacres, and horrible things happen everywhere. We are just more open about what happens here. My hope is that our openness will help us to find a way to get through times like this.
I think most of us have felt "different" and alone at some point in our lives. Most of us have been hurt by another, felt loss and even abuse. The difference here is that most of us learned how to make it through those times. I admit that I spent a few years in counseling, learning how to undo the wounds of abuse in my life. It helped a lot. And with the friends I made through different church groups and bible studies, I was able to leave an abusive marriage - and even face being homeless. I knew what it felt like to be alone, abused, and even tormented. But I got help. This person did not! And if I read the information correctly, he was unable to discern between your voice and mine - and the the tormenting voices in his head. He needed more than just "help". He needed so much more, and didn't get it.
In our country, and our world - there will always be the battle between good and wicked. And sometimes wicked wins out. It isn't fair, or right. And the losses hurt terribly. But that's why we all need each other to get through this life we are living. There will be times of fear and hurt, and there will also be times of great joy. Those are the times to celebrate.
I talked to my daughter today. She takes care of little ones who have come from terrible abuse, neglect, and also suffer from all sorts of psychological disorders. Some of these children could become the young man who did this terrible thing. Jen has been bit, punched, and called so many terrible things by very little children. But it is people like her, who determine to help these children, who make a difference in their lives. Every once in a while there are moments of laughter, and pure joy - and those are the ones she calls and has to tell me about. A child has found a new home, or one that finally lets his walls down and lets the pain out - those moments are what stops what happened at VT and other places. It is a horrible job sometimes, and I wonder sometimes how she does it - but she loves making a difference in this world. The sad part is, there are not enough beds for the children who need that type of help.
Again, I didn't meant to go on and on. But I guess I started to think about what can make a difference in this world, and it is every single one of us. Look up the programs in your community for children like this young man was when he was little. See if they need donations or volunteers. Hug your own children, and make sure you make today count. Because this really isn't Heaven that we live in.
And Erik, don't give up on this country. We do have problems, but we also have much more than so many other places in this world. In other countries, there are just as many "tragedies" - but they are hidden by governments or the fact that they are so poor that no one hears about them. Famine, massacres, and horrible things happen everywhere. We are just more open about what happens here. My hope is that our openness will help us to find a way to get through times like this.
Wow, Debbie, very well said! Bravo! I agree 110% what with you said, beautifully stated--thank you!
Many Blessings,
-Sarah Liz
Many Blessings,
-Sarah Liz
The saddest thing about all this is. Not only you lost all those lives. Am afraid this will cause a chain reaction over the next 6 months to a year. Especially with the news media airing that madifesto. Have heard that those manuscripts he supposely wrote is on the internet. Never seen it but between the video and the mauscripts. It probably push troubled teens and young adults to do do copycats of this.
Quote by debmom217:
Oh, I haven't given up on America by any means. But what I am upset about is this culture we've had for far too long in which winning is the only thing, that trying one's best isn't good enough anymore, and that it is a sport to pick on the disadvantaged, the troubled, and the poor. That particular culture is one that needs to be destroyed and placed on the ash heap of history in America, if we are ever to stop this seemingly never-ending cycle of revenge killings on our campuses and in our communities (IMHO).
QUOTE
And Erik, don't give up on this country. We do have problems, but we also have much more than so many other places in this world. In other countries, there are just as many "tragedies" - but they are hidden by governments or the fact that they are so poor that no one hears about them.
Oh, I haven't given up on America by any means. But what I am upset about is this culture we've had for far too long in which winning is the only thing, that trying one's best isn't good enough anymore, and that it is a sport to pick on the disadvantaged, the troubled, and the poor. That particular culture is one that needs to be destroyed and placed on the ash heap of history in America, if we are ever to stop this seemingly never-ending cycle of revenge killings on our campuses and in our communities (IMHO).
Needless to say I've been really thinking about this and my daughter has been questioning me also - she'll be starting high school next year.
The schools know who the trouble makers are and the students who have behavior problems - I know this first hand because of witnessing what has gone on with the kids in the 8th grade in my daughter's very small school. There's maybe 80 eighth graders - probably less. It's a very small school - as is the high school. Although this is a small school, they've had a bomb threat, they have and allow students to show a little bit of gothic..... I was a loner in school - yes picked on up until my Senior year in high school - because I was quiet - made straight A's & B's, Teacher's Aide, Library's Aide, Chorus, Yearbook staff, etc......... because my father was in the music business, everybody was aware of my family but I didn't live up to their expectations of being "socialable" and doing what everybody else did. When I was in the last quarter of my senior year, a girl that sat in front of me had made the comment that said she had never seen me mad... so she started pushing me, doing everything she could to get me mad...... I didn't give in...... (this was also a very small school)
Our teachers are there to teach school. The parents of kids/teenagers now really do not include their teenagers in their life as family. Friday, my daughter calls me up crying because a girl called her a B*&^% and was throwing things at her just to get mad..... so I called the parent..... well...... the parents didn't care...... the teenager that did it was in the background cussing........ we're talking a 14 year old teen here...... so there is no discipline or repercussions to the kids for their violence, cursing, or whatever they chose to do in this life. They do not know they have to pay the consequences of their actions. This same 14 year old girl claimed she was pregnant the first part of the year by a 16 year old....... had everyone going for about two months......... well it was a lie.... she did it for attention.
If you teach your child to stand up for themself, who's to say this kid is not going to come back to school and do something to them? What are we as parents who have teenagers going into high school or who are in high school to deal with people? My daughter cries and gets upset because of the way this girl treated her - but this kid doesn't care. So does she ignore it - say something back to make things worse - there was no teacher around....... We've raised our daughter to be courteous, christian, respective to others, and she is a loner not doing what everybody else does.
Just recently in a county here in Tennesse while a school was on spring break, three teachers were arrested........
Where is safe these days? What do we teach our kids? You can't trust anyone....... It truly is a scary world to raise children in and a vicious society in which just leaving your house, you are risking your life. What is the solution....... There is no solution...... From what I've seen out of the 20'somethings around here..... there's not much future here in our small community.... but a big city you have the gangs....
I'll get off my soap box now......
The schools know who the trouble makers are and the students who have behavior problems - I know this first hand because of witnessing what has gone on with the kids in the 8th grade in my daughter's very small school. There's maybe 80 eighth graders - probably less. It's a very small school - as is the high school. Although this is a small school, they've had a bomb threat, they have and allow students to show a little bit of gothic..... I was a loner in school - yes picked on up until my Senior year in high school - because I was quiet - made straight A's & B's, Teacher's Aide, Library's Aide, Chorus, Yearbook staff, etc......... because my father was in the music business, everybody was aware of my family but I didn't live up to their expectations of being "socialable" and doing what everybody else did. When I was in the last quarter of my senior year, a girl that sat in front of me had made the comment that said she had never seen me mad... so she started pushing me, doing everything she could to get me mad...... I didn't give in...... (this was also a very small school)
Our teachers are there to teach school. The parents of kids/teenagers now really do not include their teenagers in their life as family. Friday, my daughter calls me up crying because a girl called her a B*&^% and was throwing things at her just to get mad..... so I called the parent..... well...... the parents didn't care...... the teenager that did it was in the background cussing........ we're talking a 14 year old teen here...... so there is no discipline or repercussions to the kids for their violence, cursing, or whatever they chose to do in this life. They do not know they have to pay the consequences of their actions. This same 14 year old girl claimed she was pregnant the first part of the year by a 16 year old....... had everyone going for about two months......... well it was a lie.... she did it for attention.
If you teach your child to stand up for themself, who's to say this kid is not going to come back to school and do something to them? What are we as parents who have teenagers going into high school or who are in high school to deal with people? My daughter cries and gets upset because of the way this girl treated her - but this kid doesn't care. So does she ignore it - say something back to make things worse - there was no teacher around....... We've raised our daughter to be courteous, christian, respective to others, and she is a loner not doing what everybody else does.
Just recently in a county here in Tennesse while a school was on spring break, three teachers were arrested........
Where is safe these days? What do we teach our kids? You can't trust anyone....... It truly is a scary world to raise children in and a vicious society in which just leaving your house, you are risking your life. What is the solution....... There is no solution...... From what I've seen out of the 20'somethings around here..... there's not much future here in our small community.... but a big city you have the gangs....
I'll get off my soap box now......
Erik - I guess there will always be those who want to be the "best" and who treat others as less than they are. But that doesn't mean that all of us do that. I actually thought that our school systems had changed some since I was young. They seemed to be very wishy washy on "right and wrong" and let slide moral issues. That seemed to me, to bring about a worse society than we had when I was younger. But . . . that's just my thought on the subject.
Do you have any groups in your area that you can have your daughter join? Ones that are for Christian teens and such? That way she has friends that share the same morals and values?? I remember how much we struggled with both our children as they got older. Jen seemed to have the hardest time in college - with the morals and values and drinking and all the sexual stuff. But my determination was that I would never give up on my kids - I would always give them my thoughts on any subject - and I made sure I was always there for them - no matter what the time was or where my kids were. It was a struggle for years - for both of them. But if you keep on talking to your daughter - assuring her that she will get through this and that she is doing a good job - she really will get through it. But again - Ted and I will keep her and you in our prayers. OK???
Do you have any groups in your area that you can have your daughter join? Ones that are for Christian teens and such? That way she has friends that share the same morals and values?? I remember how much we struggled with both our children as they got older. Jen seemed to have the hardest time in college - with the morals and values and drinking and all the sexual stuff. But my determination was that I would never give up on my kids - I would always give them my thoughts on any subject - and I made sure I was always there for them - no matter what the time was or where my kids were. It was a struggle for years - for both of them. But if you keep on talking to your daughter - assuring her that she will get through this and that she is doing a good job - she really will get through it. But again - Ted and I will keep her and you in our prayers. OK???
Quote by debmom217:
All true, of course. If it seemed like I was trying to generalize, I want to apologize; that was not my intention. I know not all parents teach their kids the things I described and which I find repugnant. Unfortunately, too many of them do; and I feel a great deal of sympathy fod any kid placed into that pressure cooker for whatever reason.
QUOTE
Erik - I guess there will always be those who want to be the "best" and who treat others as less than they are. But that doesn't mean that all of us do that. I actually thought that our school systems had changed some since I was young.
All true, of course. If it seemed like I was trying to generalize, I want to apologize; that was not my intention. I know not all parents teach their kids the things I described and which I find repugnant. Unfortunately, too many of them do; and I feel a great deal of sympathy fod any kid placed into that pressure cooker for whatever reason.
Deb and Erik, think you all have points. Know things change from when my mom was in school and when my sisters and I were in school. My dad and his mother came to the states in 1956 from Italy. Cause of that my dad never went to school here. When it was time for my sisters and to go to school. My mom decided to put us in Catholic school. My dad had asked my mom why cause public school was good enough for you. My mom was like true but that was a different era. Seen how the public schools in New Orleans has got bad. (Which anyone is from Louisiana or knows anyone from around here knows New Orleans public schools brings the state down).
Well, I am the youngest of three. My sisters and I went to same Catholic high school. When I was a junior, there was senior girl that was catholic but was never baptized. So she decided to get baptized. She also played on the volleyball team and the star player. When she told coach she had to miss an important cause of this. The coach was like if you miss game you off team. When she went to principal. The principal ruled in favored the coach. One of the nuns at school got mad. When would a CATHOLIC school by all means would pick sports over religion. You would expect from public.
Know it's not totally same as whats going on now. But, think that's plays part of reason why I never had kids. Know as far as thinks on that nature. It is harder to raise a kid with problems and issues like these out there. But on same hand. Seen how my nephews came out. There is good ways and issues if you can get them in right schools and the right people. But it's does seem like you have to work harder as parents to do what is right by your child(ren).
Well, I am the youngest of three. My sisters and I went to same Catholic high school. When I was a junior, there was senior girl that was catholic but was never baptized. So she decided to get baptized. She also played on the volleyball team and the star player. When she told coach she had to miss an important cause of this. The coach was like if you miss game you off team. When she went to principal. The principal ruled in favored the coach. One of the nuns at school got mad. When would a CATHOLIC school by all means would pick sports over religion. You would expect from public.
Know it's not totally same as whats going on now. But, think that's plays part of reason why I never had kids. Know as far as thinks on that nature. It is harder to raise a kid with problems and issues like these out there. But on same hand. Seen how my nephews came out. There is good ways and issues if you can get them in right schools and the right people. But it's does seem like you have to work harder as parents to do what is right by your child(ren).
I guess after witnessing first hand what has happened this year while my daughter is finishing out her last year of 8th grade, I realize that the majority of the parents are more into buying their kids materialistic things, letting them do what they want and when they want, trying to be their friend rather than be their parent. I've witnessed numerous 14 - 15 year old teens telling their parents what to do, what they will and will not wear........ the kids making fun of a kid because he didn't have the latest I-pod - he had an mp3 player or the lates Razor cellphone...... as a society we've turned our teenagers into non-caring, very materialistic, no respect for anything brats. Granted I'm one of the oldest parents because I waited later in life to have my one and only child but these kids are just disrespectful. No manners and think that everything is owed to them.
What happened to "Spare the rod, spoil the child"? These kids have no idea about payig the consequences for their actions. It's the same in private schools and public schools. If you stand up to someone who is being mean to you - what are the consequences going to be?
It is a very scary world out there people and the kids graduating now and in the next couple of years doesn't show anything promising.......
just another two cents.
What happened to "Spare the rod, spoil the child"? These kids have no idea about payig the consequences for their actions. It's the same in private schools and public schools. If you stand up to someone who is being mean to you - what are the consequences going to be?
It is a very scary world out there people and the kids graduating now and in the next couple of years doesn't show anything promising.......
just another two cents.
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